All Things Internal Audit: Women in Internal Audit: Five Leaders on Voice, Power, and Owning the Room

00:00:02 The IIA

The Institute of Internal Auditors presents All Things Internal Audit. In this special episode, we're celebrating Women's History Month by bringing five senior audit leaders for a conversation that's long overdue. Together, they cover the careers they built, the rooms they walked into alone, and what they'd tell every woman in this profession right now.

00:00:26 Doris Myles

Many times throughout my career, I was the only woman in the room, and many times I was the only black woman in the room.

00:00:37 Erin Banet

Do your homework, go in where you're confident, and have all the facts, be bold, and don't take no for an answer if you don't have to.

00:00:45 Chrysti Ziegler

I grew up in a Latino family, and one of the expectations as a child in that type of family is to not challenge authority.

00:00:56 Chrysti Ziegler

And that's difficult, especially when you're an auditor and one that needs to challenge the status quo.

00:01:03 Dominique Vincenti

If you enter a high stakes conversation already bracing for prejudice, you're not going to be fully present because you are managing A narrative instead of leading one.

00:01:17 Beili Wong

Sometimes you need to see the other side of the risk, which is opportunities and taking

00:01:25 Beili Wong

calculated smart risk to elevate your career, to seek opportunities.

00:01:33 The IIA

Five women, 5 careers. Decades of experience across some of the world's largest organizations. They didn't just find their way into this profession. They helped shape it. First, let's meet our leaders.

00:01:46 Doris Myles

Christy Ziegler, Chief Auditor at Cidco Petroleum Corporation. Doris Miles, Director of Internal Audit at St. Jude.

00:01:55 Dominique Vincenti

Dominique Vincenti, immediate past Chief Audit Executive at Uber and currently a board member at Loft Orbital.

00:02:03 Erin Banet

Aaron Benet, Chief Audit and Risk Officer at Humana.

00:02:07 Beili Wong

Bailey Wong, Comptroller General in Ontario, Canada.

00:02:12 The IIA

But like most people in internal audit, none of them started here. For some, it was intentional. For others, it was unexpected. But in every case, something clicked.

00:02:22 Doris Myles

I actually knew I wanted to be an internal auditor before I fully understood what that meant. I was a junior in college. I remember sitting in a Beta Alpha Psi meeting during Career Day, and a woman stood up to talk about her role at International Paper. She was an auditor. She talked about going to paper mills and understanding the operation of what was happening.

00:02:47 Doris Myles

And something clicked and it all made sense to me. And I knew that's what I needed to do when I grow up. So I started off in the accounting space, but that was never my destination. I wanted to understand why things work the way that they did. And closing the books was not enough for me. There were a couple of pivots.

00:03:12 Doris Myles

that really crystallized my passion. And one that stands out early in my career was when I was an audit committee coordinator. And I was in the room where all the magic happened, preparing the materials, attending meetings, doing all the grunt work. But I loved every moment of it. And at some point after a board meeting, my chief auditor pulled me aside and said,

00:03:40 Doris Myles

Where do you see yourself in five years? I guess he wanted me to talk about what business area I wanted to be in, but I remember clearly looking into his blue eyes and I said, in five years, I want your job. And I meant it.

00:03:57 Doris Myles

And so years later, a different company, I did have that job, but I brought something different to the table that he didn't have. And it was just that passion.

00:04:07 Erin Banet

So I decided I wanted to be an auditor back in college. And so I went to a small school and recruiting from a big four perspective wasn't something that happened at that small school. And so applied the old school way to a lot of the different big four accounting firms. And

00:04:27 Erin Banet

ended up having a female that was a senior manager at the time that picked up my resume. And she was also from a small town like me. And she picked up my resume, brought me in for an interview, and gave me, I was successful in getting the role. So I attribute a lot of my success to her. Along my journey, there's been a lot of different females that have helped pave the way and have taught me a lot. And so I attribute a lot of the learning to, and the growth

00:04:57 Erin Banet

of my career to them and everything I've learned from them. And I hope to pay that back to people along the way as well.

00:05:03 Chrysti Ziegler

Essentially, I found internal audit out of desperation and accident, as I like to say it. I didn't see this coming. I interviewed for an internal audit job, but honestly didn't really know what I was getting into. But I was offered the job, surprisingly, accepted the job. And about six months into it,

00:05:26 Chrysti Ziegler

that's when everything fell into place. It was like putting in the last piece of a giant puzzle. I just, it just clicked all of a sudden, and I understood the purpose of internal audit. And it honestly felt so perfect for me that I knew right away that I was going to enjoy my job. This is not just a job anymore. It was more going to be my career. And

00:05:52 Chrysti Ziegler

and the purpose for my profession.

00:05:54 Beili Wong

I'm not a very conventional internal auditor, if there's a such thing. I graduate from Shanghai University, and I worked in Shanghai for a couple of years, and then I went to the US to do my MBA. And when I was in US doing my MBA, I also become a CPA of Washington State.

00:06:17 Beili Wong

Then I find a job with a Fortune 500 company as an internal auditor. And then I moved to Toronto, Canada. And in Toronto, Canada, I started my internal audit career with Shoppers Drug Mart, but I'm moving to corporate finance, corporate accounting very soon. I did go back to internal audit when I start my role with Hudson's Bay Company, and then move on to the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

00:06:43 Beili Wong

And then I left internal audit a little bit as well. I moved to the risk side of it. I moved to the CFO side of it. And then I joined the government, government, Ontario government, as its chief internal auditor.

00:06:56 Dominique Vincenti

I finished college with a great education, a master in management sciences from the London School of Economics and a master of business administration from a French business school. And I have zero idea of what I want to do.

00:07:12 Dominique Vincenti

So I decide that maybe joining consulting would be a good first step, because in consulting, I'm going to apply what I've learned at school, which is management sciences, but then I'm going to navigate different missions, different industries. And my first job, I joined Arthur Anderson, which at that point has both the consulting and the auditing arm within one company. You have to remember, this is all pre-internet.

00:07:41 Dominique Vincenti

I don't know. I didn't pay attention, but I happened to join the external auditing, the auditing side. And it's terrible. I hate it. Having said that, the one thing and the one chance I had during that two-year stint with Arthur Andersen is one day to be invited to a meeting at a company

00:08:02 Dominique Vincenti

where there was different members of the management on the side of the company. And then there was this guy who keeps bringing some interesting insights. He's not talking accounting, he's not talking financial reporting, he's talking business and how however pieces of the puzzle come to make the company successful or not successful.

00:08:29 Dominique Vincenti

I'm intrigued. He's been introduced as the head of internal audit. So at the end of the meeting, I wanted to see him and said, hey, if you have 30 minutes, I would love to contact you again so that you can explain to me what this internal audit thing is, because I've never heard of this. And he was very gracious. We had this meeting, and at the end of it, I said, oh my God, this is my calling. This is exactly what I want to do.

00:08:55 Dominique Vincenti

And the rest is history. I put my resume together. Two months later, I had my first internal audit job with a company.

00:09:01 The IIA

Getting into the profession is one thing. Finding your voice in it, that's something else entirely. Because internal audit isn't a quiet role. You're challenging decisions, presenting to leadership, speaking up sometimes when it would be easier not to. And for many women, that comes with an added layer.

00:09:19 Erin Banet

I think it's so important to come into a conversation

00:09:23 Erin Banet

and have confidence and showcase that confidence, be bold. So many times as women, we kind of bring ourselves back a little bit. We use qualifiers in our messaging. So we

00:09:37 Erin Banet

discount ourselves sometimes in the messaging that we're taking. And that's really not how we should be. I know there's studies out there of men coming to the table with a proposal versus women and how women have qualifiers in their statements and they kind of back down quicker. And so as a female leader,

00:09:59 Erin Banet

it's very important to, I mean, we're always in high stake conversations. And so to be knowledgeable, do your homework, go in where you're confident and have all the facts, be bold and don't take no for an answer if you don't have to, right? Like stay true to what you're shooting for there. And generally, I think people think a lot of that. I think leadership actually sees that as, you know, you start to build momentum by taking that approach versus continuing to back down and you

00:10:29 Erin Banet

really show your seat at the table and show your worth in that case.

00:10:34 Chrysti Ziegler

I grew up in a Latino family and one of the expectations as a child in that type of family is to not challenge authority.

00:10:44 Chrysti Ziegler

And that's difficult, especially when you're an auditor and one that needs to challenge the status quo, right? If something is not working right or needs to be improved, or there's a broken process or control, we need to speak up about that and really challenge management, gain that confidence from the truth. At least that's what's helped me. And it comes in two ways, right? It's not only just defending the audit results that we have, that is by nature what we do. We have to

00:11:14 Chrysti Ziegler

defend the audit results because they're based on facts. And that makes it so much easier, right? If we didn't have the facts and we didn't know that what we're speaking is the truth, then we'd have such a hard time defending those recommendations and the audit bindings, right? So as long as we're being factual, which we have to be anyway, it makes it so much easier to have that communication. I have,

00:11:38 Chrysti Ziegler

imposter syndrome. That's a phrase that a lot of people are becoming more and more familiar with. I didn't know what that meant, but I certainly had that sense of, I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe I was picked or I'm not ready for my first chief auditor position. You know, I'm only an internal audit manager, which is actually what truly happened. I was an internal audit manager and I applied for a chief auditor position and I got it. was basically 2 steps above

00:12:08 Chrysti Ziegler

what my current role was, but I applied for it. And the worst they could tell me was no.

00:12:14 The IIA

But not everyone approaches this the same way. For some, it's about preparation. For others, it's about mindset.

00:12:21 Doris Myles

So the advice that I would give today is very different from what I would have given 10 years ago. I think it's worth saying that a lot of women listening are on a journey and we're all in different stages of that journey. But early in my career, I confuse being prepared with permission. I thought if I came to

00:12:49 Doris Myles

a meeting with all of my documentation, every point, my risk perfectly map, that someone would look to me and say, hey, you know, Doris has some input. She has a voice on this.

00:13:06 Doris Myles

But that moment didn't come. Specifically, I remember being in an audit committee meeting and I was thinking that I've done a lot of work. My work should speak for itself, but I wasn't always invited into deeper conversations. But here's my takeaway for that. If you're invited to a table, if it's an audit committee, if it's C-suite presentations, if it's a high-stake conversation,

00:13:35 Doris Myles

you have a perspective that matters. And many times throughout my career, I was the only woman in the room. And many times I was the only black woman in the room. And it would be easy to just shrink and to let others' voices like carry the weight of the conversation. But every time I did that, every time I held back,

00:14:01 Doris Myles

I always felt it later and I regretted it. So if women have a voice and they're invited to the table, I want to encourage them to speak up. Your voice matters. And sometimes it's about timing, but sometimes it's about just speaking

00:14:24 Doris Myles

when asked, but you come prepared, you do your homework, and sometimes you don't wait for the invitation to add your perspective. You may have to jump in there. And this is probably more directed towards women of color. You often feel pressure to overqualify your statements. You soften the delivery. You make your perspective palatable.

00:14:51 Doris Myles

And sometimes when you do that, you lose your message. It doesn't hit the same way. So you can be thoughtful and you can still be direct. And you can be measured, but it's still powerful when you do that. Be organized.

00:15:09 Doris Myles

be okay with being uncomfortable in some of those conversations. The discomfort, it's going to be there. It doesn't disappear. But that's exactly the moment your voice should be heard and you should speak up.

00:15:23 Dominique Vincenti

Walk in the room as a professional first. There's well-meaning, but ultimately limiting tendency to coach women on how to navigate bias before they've even opened their mouth. So

00:15:37 Dominique Vincenti

to preload every interaction with an awareness of how they might be perceived as women. And I think that framing, however, well-intentioned can quietly undermine the very confidence it's trying to build. So if you enter a high-stakes conversation already bracing for prejudice, like being, oh, I am a woman, so how should I do this?

00:16:08 Dominique Vincenti

you're not going to be fully present because you are managing A narrative instead of leading one. Let me say something first. Does bias exist? Absolutely. Is sexism real? Yeah, absolutely. I would never minimize that. But the antidote is not to make gender

00:16:34 Dominique Vincenti

the operating lens through which you navigate every professional interaction. The antidote is radical ownership of your expertise. So my advice to any professional, woman or men, is to speak from the top of your knowledge and not from the edge of your anxiety. When you are the most informed person in the room on a given matter, act like it.

00:17:04 Dominique Vincenti

Take up the space that your expertise earns you. Don't wait to be invited into the conversation. Take place in the conversation. And working as a woman in a room that may not fully value women. You're working in as someone who has done the work, knows the topic, and has something essential to contribute. So you're bringing you in the room,

00:17:33 Dominique Vincenti

and your judgment, your preparation, your point of view. And that, in every and any circumstances, will command respect across any table. I've entered every job with, I had something to say. I had something I knew I wanted to do, I wanted to try. And I was just trying to find an environment that was willing to let me do that. So I was not, I never really entered a room

00:18:03 Dominique Vincenti

begging for something, I was entering the room with, I have an idea. I'm going to share it. And I'm going to share it again and again and again until I find an environment where that ID, I find the conditions where I can execute on that idea. And that's not a gender strategy. That's just a professional one.

00:18:23 Beili Wong

I think as an internal auditor, we have the privilege. It doesn't matter you're a junior auditor, you're a senior,

00:18:30 Beili Wong

audit executive. We have many, many opportunities to sit at the table to voice our recommendations. I remember my early career in my 20s, and I was doing an audit in Athens, Greece. I was doing an audit in Dusseldorf, Germany. And when I was done my audit report, I was there by myself, and I was tabling the report with the highest

00:18:59 Beili Wong

ranking official within the local subsidiary. And sometimes I get questions, I get challenged, and I got asked point blank is, you're so young, like I've been in this organization for 20 years as the CFO, what kind of recommendation you can give to me? And what I said to them in a very calm and professional manner is that, yes, maybe I haven't been with a company for over 20 years.

00:19:26 Beili Wong

but I've been to 20 locations all over the world. So I can share the best practices I have learned from Brazil, from other countries, from China, from the US with this particular location. And when I sit in those rooms at those tables, I think I always try to have an open-minded mental posture because I am there not just to

00:19:56 Beili Wong

dish out my findings, my recommendations. I am there to share my observations, and I'm absolutely there to welcome their feedbacks.

00:20:07 The IIA

And those individual moments, speaking up, pushing back, taking space, they don't just shape careers.

00:20:14 The IIA

They're reshaping the profession itself.

00:20:17 The IIA

And you can feel that shift happening in real time, not just in the numbers, but in how internal audit is evolving, who leads, how decisions are made, and what leadership looks like today.

00:20:28 Erin Banet

So back in 2017, only around 30% of women were CAEs across the United States.

00:20:37 Erin Banet

And as of current state, around 47% are CAEs.

00:20:42 Erin Banet

And so obviously to me, that says we're doing something really right here, right?

00:20:47 Erin Banet

Like we all have those examples of women who have helped our career.

00:20:51 Erin Banet

And so I see it as we're taking that right seat at the table.

00:20:55 Erin Banet

We're showcasing our worth in those, you know, high stake conversations and really showcasing our confidence.

00:21:02 Erin Banet

But we're doing that in a way that allows us to be seen and be given the opportunity to continue to advance our careers.

00:21:11 Erin Banet

And I think that's really important because as people grow under us, right, like we want to be also those people that give back and help to also make other females, their career grow as well.

00:21:24 Doris Myles

The most significant shift I've seen in this, women are changing what it looks like to be credible in the profession.

00:21:31 Doris Myles

And it's a big deal.

00:21:33 Doris Myles

I think women have a super, superpower in this space.

00:21:37 Doris Myles

We are powerful.

00:21:38 Doris Myles

We are empathetic.

00:21:40 Doris Myles

We hold people accountable, but we still make people feel seen.

00:21:44 Doris Myles

We're attuned to the subtle shifts that's happening beneath the surface.

00:21:49 Doris Myles

And we respond to that.

00:21:51 Doris Myles

And that's not just our soft skills.

00:21:54 Doris Myles

It's more like our strategic capabilities.

00:21:57 Doris Myles

For a long time, people talked about a strong internal audit leader would be someone who led with authority, kept their emotions at bay.

00:22:07 Doris Myles

And that's good, but I don't think it's the full picture.

00:22:13 Doris Myles

And it doesn't add a lot of value to the table.

00:22:17 Doris Myles

What women have brought, I think, is so much broader, the relationships.

00:22:22 Doris Myles

We can hold conversation with different people.

00:22:25 Doris Myles

We know the delivery matters, but I want to share something about an experience when I worked at Mondelez.

00:22:34 Doris Myles

I had oversight responsibilities for a remote team that was based in Russia.

00:22:38 Doris Myles

And this was a few years ago, but there was so much happening beneath the surface.

00:22:44 Doris Myles

Pressures the team

00:22:45 Doris Myles

was carrying that weren't necessarily visible.

00:22:48 Doris Myles

There was a lot of things that weren't being talked about.

00:22:52 Doris Myles

And I had a choice to lead that team with empathy.

00:22:56 Doris Myles

I was very inclusive.

00:22:58 Doris Myles

I over-communicated.

00:23:00 Doris Myles

If there was something that I wanted to know, we had the conversation.

00:23:07 Doris Myles

And I think in the end, that gave them a safe space.

00:23:11 Doris Myles

They knew I wasn't tippy-toeing around

00:23:15 Doris Myles

the situations that were happening in their country, but I was leading with empathy.

00:23:21 Doris Myles

And I think that took a lot of courage, but I know the team felt it.

00:23:25 Doris Myles

I saw it, tenfold in how they delivered.

00:23:30 Doris Myles

So I think those are just little ways that women, we change the culture.

00:23:35 Doris Myles

It's just being present and being empathetic.

00:23:39 Doris Myles

And you just build on that.

00:23:41 Doris Myles

And it's not just one event or

00:23:44 Doris Myles

One thing that happens, it is every day, every conversation, every person.

00:23:50 Doris Myles

So it's all important.

00:23:51 Beili Wong

I think as women, as we continue to elevate into leadership roles, we're reshaping the culture of internal audit.

00:24:00 Beili Wong

I think a lot of times is seeing as believing.

00:24:05 Beili Wong

When I was a young auditor, majority of the chief internal auditors or chief audit executives I have met,

00:24:13 Beili Wong

than men, than male.

00:24:15 Beili Wong

And I think it is important and it's absolutely a delight to see more women in leadership, in internal audit, and help us help the younger generation to see where their future can be and probably even beyond what we can achieve.

00:24:36 Beili Wong

And I think as we see more women in the leadership, we realize we are not just technicians.

00:24:43 Beili Wong

By the way, I have been called that.

00:24:45 Beili Wong

We're not just technicians.

00:24:47 Beili Wong

We're leaders.

00:24:48 Beili Wong

We're executives.

00:24:50 Beili Wong

We are there to help the organization to design and deliver on their strategies, on their mandates.

00:24:57 Dominique Vincenti

My experience might be different and unique, but there's been a lot of women in internal audit throughout my career and my life.

00:25:06 Dominique Vincenti

And so along the way, there was a lot of space

00:25:11 Dominique Vincenti

made for women in inter-audit where they could excel, take leadership role, and grow.

00:25:21 Dominique Vincenti

Because, they tend to have a lot of the qualities that you need in inter-audit.

00:25:28 Dominique Vincenti

It's, you need both a left and right brain.

00:25:31 Dominique Vincenti

Usually, I said this is a profession that is powered by technology but led by empathy.

00:25:37 Dominique Vincenti

It's a profession where

00:25:39 Dominique Vincenti

You need fundamentally to understand that you're going to work with people, for people, through people.

00:25:46 Dominique Vincenti

But to be effective, you're going to be, and you will have to use a lot of tools, technologies, and complex methodologies.

00:25:55 Dominique Vincenti

And women are just fantastic at that.

00:25:57 Dominique Vincenti

Both those things, not all women, but I would say fundamentally, the seeds are there.

00:26:04 Dominique Vincenti

And if they are nurtured the right way,

00:26:08 Dominique Vincenti

Through your education and experience, you're going to be great at it.

00:26:12 Dominique Vincenti

Are there progress to be made?

00:26:15 Dominique Vincenti

For sure.

00:26:16 The IIA

And while there's real progress, more visibility, more leadership, more voices at the table, it doesn't mean the work is done.

00:26:25 The IIA

Because even in a profession where women have long played a role, there are still gaps, still opportunities, still room to grow.

00:26:33 Erin Banet

47% of CAEs are women.

00:26:35 Erin Banet

And if you look below that, there's still a lot of growth at the director level or below for women to get into those higher level roles and organizations.

00:26:46 Erin Banet

But also there's a lot of studies out, whether internal audit or otherwise, there's still a pay equity gap between women and men.

00:26:53 Erin Banet

And I think sometimes that does come back to

00:26:56 Erin Banet

women not coming to the table as confident as men and not being as bold.

00:27:01 Erin Banet

And so a man generally is going to always, always ask.

00:27:05 Erin Banet

They're going to come to the table and they're going to ask if they're upset about their pay or whatever the case.

00:27:10 Erin Banet

Whereas, you know, females may not always do that and they might not take that same approach or be as bold to support their careers.

00:27:18 Chrysti Ziegler

Where there's still work to do is having those female audit leaders with a seat at the table, the proverbial seat at the table, right?

00:27:28 Chrysti Ziegler

I think there are female leaders that maybe they're the heads of the internal audit function, but they're still just an employee, right?

00:27:39 Chrysti Ziegler

They don't necessarily have the voice that they need to have within their companies.

00:27:45 Chrysti Ziegler

They're still effectively doing their jobs, they're doing all the things they need to do, but having that seat at the table where their voice is actually listened to by other people at that proverbial table, the other company leaders, are listening to that female audit leader without any prejudice or judgment.

00:28:07 Chrysti Ziegler

That's where I think we need to have more progress in, where we still have work to do.

00:28:13 Doris Myles

Something has shifted.

00:28:15 Doris Myles

But the ceiling is still real.

00:28:18 Doris Myles

Women of color continue to hit walls.

00:28:20 Doris Myles

It may have less to do with qualification, but sometimes who's in the room making decisions?

00:28:27 Doris Myles

So when you talk about sponsorship, it's still a wide gap.

00:28:32 Doris Myles

We all have mentors, but the mentor is really someone you talk to, but that sponsor is someone that speaks when you're not in the room.

00:28:41 The IIA

And that distinction matters.

00:28:43 The IIA

Because for many women navigating their careers, it's not just about having guidance.

00:28:48 The IIA

It's about having someone who advocates for you, especially in the rooms you're not in.

00:28:54 Erin Banet

I think...

00:28:55 Erin Banet

It's important to find your sponsor, like find somebody in your career path, no matter what level you are, that truly like pounds the table for you.

00:29:04 Erin Banet

Whether a female or a male, I've had many and both categories across my career, but having someone or a group of people that really have your back and really want you to be successful is extremely important to help you get to where you want to get to.

00:29:21 The IIA

But support doesn't always look the same.

00:29:24 The IIA

Sometimes it's advocacy.

00:29:25 The IIA

And sometimes it's access.

00:29:28 Erin Banet

So early on in my career at Deloitte, I had the opportunity to participate in a lot of different audit committee meetings and see messages being delivered and understand that executive presence that it took to deliver those.

00:29:46 Erin Banet

I was also fortunate at Deloitte, I was in a women's leadership program and had an executive coach along the way.

00:29:54 Erin Banet

And

00:29:55 Erin Banet

It was amazing, all the great things that come out of that and that you can take along your career.

00:30:01 Erin Banet

And so if anybody ever has the opportunity to take on a coach or adapt based on an external coach and the feedback they're giving you, take it.

00:30:12 Erin Banet

It's always worth it, in my opinion.

00:30:13 Erin Banet

But when I started at Humana, our chief audit executive at the time was also a female that came from a similar tenure at PWC that I had at Deloitte.

00:30:24 Erin Banet

she was adamant that all of us as leaders, so there were other directors in addition to myself that reported up through her, we all had the opportunity to speak from day one at every single audit committee meeting.

00:30:37 Erin Banet

And so we may have had like a really small part, but we got to have the opportunity to speak, get the questions real time, and also just see the dialogue and the expectations that, you know, from all the back and forth conversations.

00:30:52 Erin Banet

And when I fast forward to when the CAE role was open, I credit a lot of how I was able to get the role to having that opportunity that was presented at day one to be able to present to the committee and having that over the course of my career.

00:31:08 The IIA

And those opportunities don't always happen by chance.

00:31:12 The IIA

Sometimes you have to ask for them.

00:31:14 Beili Wong

Reach out, build up your own network.

00:31:17 Beili Wong

And when you in a professional event,

00:31:21 Beili Wong

you heard from a speaker, you want to have a follow-up coffee with him or her, say it.

00:31:28 Beili Wong

The worst scenario is he or she said, no, I'm busy or can't, but you know what, ask.

00:31:32 Beili Wong

You will be surprised how many times people will say yes.

00:31:36 Beili Wong

And as a mentor for many times, I can honestly tell you that I learned just as much from my mentees, and I hope my mentees have learned from me.

00:31:46 Beili Wong

So take that courageous step and ask to build those relationships.

00:31:51 The IIA

But even that mentorship, sponsorship guidance, it's not always straightforward because sometimes the most important lessons come from the advice you chose not to take.

00:32:02 Chrysti Ziegler

I had just had my son and I still had aspirations of being a leader, being an executive.

00:32:10 Chrysti Ziegler

So in a room of a couple 100 women,

00:32:14 Chrysti Ziegler

I rose my hand, I asked a question into the microphone of how as a female executive, do I balance my aspirations to be a leader, to advance my career and also be a mom?

00:32:28 Chrysti Ziegler

How do I do that?

00:32:29 Chrysti Ziegler

And when I asked that question again in front of a couple of 100 other women, the female executive that answered my question said, you can't.

00:32:40 Chrysti Ziegler

You have to choose one or the other.

00:32:44 Chrysti Ziegler

And that was so defeating in that moment.

00:32:46 Chrysti Ziegler

Of course, I was almost embarrassed in a way that I even asked that question because I was being shot down in front of everybody.

00:32:54 Chrysti Ziegler

That to say that my very next role as a professional was the head of internal audit.

00:33:04 Chrysti Ziegler

And so at the time that I asked my question, I was a manager.

00:33:08 Chrysti Ziegler

in internal audit, had a director above me and a VP above him.

00:33:11 Chrysti Ziegler

But then my very next role in my career was the head of audit.

00:33:16 Chrysti Ziegler

And I was still a mom to a young child.

00:33:19 Chrysti Ziegler

So I reflected back to that moment where I asked the question and realized she didn't know what she was talking about.

00:33:27 Chrysti Ziegler

Here I am.

00:33:28 Chrysti Ziegler

I've answered my own question.

00:33:30 Chrysti Ziegler

Here I am a standing testament to the fact that you don't have to give up one or the other.

00:33:35 Chrysti Ziegler

You can be both.

00:33:37 Chrysti Ziegler

And I was really fortunate to have found that position to work for a company and a boss.

00:33:44 Chrysti Ziegler

Here I am as a testament that I can do both and other people can do both.

00:33:49 Chrysti Ziegler

That it's not about

00:33:51 Chrysti Ziegler

sacrificing one or the other.

00:33:53 Chrysti Ziegler

And maybe that sacrifice happens, but it's very temporary.

00:33:56 Chrysti Ziegler

It's not permanent.

00:33:57 The IIA

And we'll end where we began, with three thoughts that between them say just about everything.

00:34:03 Dominique Vincenti

Make sure you're fueled by your passion.

00:34:05 Dominique Vincenti

So do you know what your passion is and where your passion is?

00:34:10 Dominique Vincenti

Because by experience, it helps A lot.

00:34:15 Dominique Vincenti

And you getting to where you want to be way, way, way faster because your decisions are purposeful.

00:34:21 Beili Wong

I would like to encourage each and every internal auditors to think about the other side of the risk.

00:34:29 Beili Wong

I don't know if you have heard a Chinese word called wei ji.

00:34:33 Beili Wong

Wei ji means crisis, but wei ji is actually made of two characters.

00:34:39 Beili Wong

Wei and ji.

00:34:41 Beili Wong

Wei actually means danger and ji means opportunities.

00:34:47 Beili Wong

So that's

00:34:49 Beili Wong

5,000 years of ancient cultural history, the Chinese wisdom is when they see danger, they also see opportunities.

00:34:59 Beili Wong

And the same with us, when we're helping the organization, risk management, when we are managing the risk within our career as well.

00:35:09 Beili Wong

Sometimes you need to see the other side of the risk, which is opportunities.

00:35:16 Beili Wong

And taking calculated

00:35:18 Beili Wong

small risk to elevate your career.

00:35:23 Doris Myles

I want to say to every woman listening, whether you're two years in or 20 years, the work that you do, it matters.

00:35:31 Doris Myles

And it goes far beyond your audit reports, your audit findings, or the job done well.

00:35:38 Doris Myles

But what you do is so important.

00:35:43 Doris Myles

And sometimes

00:35:45 Doris Myles

We have to just own the space that we're in and we have to get out of our own way.

00:35:50 Doris Myles

But don't let anyone, including yourself, dim your light, make you feel small in a profession that you've earned.

00:35:58 Doris Myles

You've worked hard, you're at the table, so own it.

00:36:02 Doris Myles

And for anyone who has ever been the only in a room, I see you, keep going, we're all rooting for you.

00:36:13 The IIA

That was Women in Internal Audit, closing out Women's History Month with Doris Miles, Erin Benet, Christy Zegler, Dominique Vincenti, and Bailey Wong.

00:36:22 The IIA

For more perspectives from women across the profession, check out the April issue of Internal Auditor Magazine in the article Leading the Way.

00:36:30 The IIA

You can find links to both the magazine and the article in our show notes.

00:36:35 The IIA

If you like this podcast, please subscribe and rate us.

00:36:38 The IIA

You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

00:36:41 The IIA

You can also catch other episodes on YouTube or at the iia.org.

00:36:45 The IIA

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